Bear with me folks, this is a long one. This topic has long been a favorite of mine and I was waiting for the perfect opportunity. Well it has arrived. My home town paper printed this article.
Having owned guns and been an active hunter for over 60 years, I feel qualified to speak on the subject of guns. Why do I own a gun in the first place? I can think of only three possible reasons: To go hunting, to use for target practice or for self defense. I can’t think of any other reason — can you?
That being the case, why do we gun owners need an assault weapon? Is it just for kicks? Isn’t it time we stepped up and told NRA to take the lead in calling for a ban on the manufacture of all assault weapons?
During World War II, a manufacturer had to have a D.O. (Defense Order) to produce anything for use by the armed forces. If we reissued such a requirement we could put an end to the manufacture or importation of these “toys” and put an end to multiple slayings like Virginia Tech and Columbine. NRA could expand its membership and win over many anti-gun folks by taking this lethal bull by the horns.
-John P. Hansel-
My lengthy response.
I am a soldier from Bemidji, writing from Iraq. This subject is a passionate one for me.
To the author of this article-owning guns and having been an avid hunter does not qualify you to speak on the subject of guns as you yourself have proven. “Assault weapons” have been around for years. Only recently have we seen this kind of violence in our home streets. Perhaps a lack of family values and a degenerate society could be blamed instead of assault rifles. Or we could accept the fact that in life, bad things will happen to good people. Do you really think that the availability of a certain type of firearm has ANYTHING to do with the crime? Need I cite the columbine massacre?
Need I cite the deaths of my friends and fellow soldiers killed here in Iraq? Would banning of home cleaning products used in the building of bombs bring back or prevent deaths? Is there any difference in the terrorists in Iraq or Timothy McVeigh?
“Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” This isn’t a new argument. Knee jerk reactions to mass violence are becoming more commonplace. It may sooth people who are looking for a quick fix, but on the contrary, will do more harm than good. There are many arguments here that don’t need to be re-stated. However, I will say that making laws doesn’t reduce crime and can in fact enhance it.
Australia banned all firearms and in the FIRST YEAR ALONE violent crime rates soared upwards of 312%
Are we talking about a full ban on guns? No. But it is an erosion of gun rights that will soon wash them all away. What will be left to future generations if every so often a few rights are taken?
Criminals do not obey laws. “When guns are outlawed, only the outlaws have guns.”
Gun related homicides count for very few deaths in America. Buckets (of water) kill more children than guns ever have. Blunt objects and knives are used in many more murders than guns. Should we ban and register those too?
All the deaths in the Vietnam War combined do not equal the total number of deaths related to drunk driving annually in the U.S. Should we then ban alcohol? We tried that, it didn’t work out so well. I suppose we could ban cars since they are the tools of so much destruction. Maybe if we started enforcing existing laws and exacting penalties on law breakers instead of punishing the masses for the wrongs of a few we would be further along.
Since when have we started treating guns as more than the tools of a crime? Hostile intent creates hostile action. If there is intent, laws or no laws, guns or no guns, there will be a hostile action.
This clip was wonderful, and well worth re-posting
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3149487
Thank you all who stand up for our rights and God help those that don’t. “The things we do here today, echo in eternity.” As the proverbial little Dutch boy plugging holes in the dam, be it Iraq or America, I hope people will continue to be part of the solution instead of the problem.
Brothers
E Plurubus Unum, Rex Montis
16 comments:
Excellent post zeke. Well thought out and all that. Without the Second Amendment, none of the others would exist.
I could not have said it better! Some people just don't get it. Those on the other side of the wall refuse to comprehend common sense and continue to act out. You suppose the writer of that article would ever take your points into concideration? My bet is no! Too bad. That is the problem with our society. Complete lack of common sense!
Daniel G (my brother in blood and in arms),
I would like to say kudos to everything that you pointed out here, and also add a few points of my own.
To Mr Hansel,
You wrote as a “qualified person” to speak about gun issues you appear quite ignorant on most of your facts. If you are going to argue a point effectively you should have at least a working knowledge of the subject.
First let’s talk about “assault weapons.” Here is some information that might help.
Under the former Federal Assault Weapons Ban, the primary characteristics of the U.S. M16 and M4 assault rifles, other than fully automatic fire, were chosen to define what makes a semi-automatic rifle an assault weapon - many other regulations in the United States have adopted similar defining characteristics.
1994 Assault Weapon Ban (expired) Features List (any two of the following features to meet classification as an assault weapon):
• A detachable magazine holding more than 10 rounds.
• Military-style appearance, including semi-automatic replicas of military selective-fire assault rifles and machine guns
• A folding or telescoping stock
• Attached grenade launchers such as the M203 or rifle grenade
• On rifles and shotguns, pistol grips that extend vertically from the stock
• A bayonet lug
• Threaded barrel capable of accepting a flash suppressor, muzzle brake, or sound suppressor
• Weapons that include a barrel shroud
• On pistols, those on which the magazine attaches outside of the pistol grip
• A forward mounted pistol grip
Now that you have read what the definition of an assault weapon is according to the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, I would like to present to you several examples of these lethal combinations.
Let’s take the Remington 870 shotgun, arguably one of the most popular “hunting” firearms in the country. It is a shoulder fired, pump action, tubular fed weapon that holds 3 to 8 rounds ammunition, (depending on how long the magazine tube is) and comes in a variety of stock configurations. Now let’s take this “hunting shotgun” and modify just two things. First we’ll replace the classic “hunting” stock with one that incorporates a “pistol grip.”
The only difference between the two is that the grip held by the firing hand is now pointed down from the action instead of running parallel to it (scary I know!)
Now let’s add a barrel shroud, which is quite simply a shroud of metal or plastic that protects your non-firing hand from being burned when the barrel gets hot.
By changing only two things we have just taken an innocent “hunting shotgun” and miraculously transformed it into a deadly “assault weapon.” Keep in mind that we have not made this weapon shoot fully automatic or added a grenade launcher. We have in essence, only added a 3 inch piece of plastic to the stock and covered part of the barrel with a piece of metal or plastic.
I want to educate people on the difference between a “hunting rifle” and an “assault rifle.” If I have done this for even one person that read this, then I have accomplished something.
I would also like to point out to Mr. Hansel that the Virginia Tech shooting was not committed with an assault rifle of any kind, but instead the shooter used a Glock and a .22 pistol. Maybe we should ban all .22s?
I will leave you with one final fact. By going to www.medicalmalpractice.com you can read for yourself the Minnesota Department Report on Adverse Events in Minnesota Hospitals.
Here is an excerpt taken from it…” The report summarizes the number and types of events that occurred in Minnesota hospitals and surgical centers between October 7, 2004 and October 6, 2005. According to the report, during that period, 106 adverse events were reported by 47 facilities, and 12 deaths and nine serious disabilities resulted from the events….”
It sounds to me like doctors are about as leathal in Minnesota as guns are. With the logic that you posses, one would have to think that if we are going to ban any kind of firerm, maybe as a concered public we should also concider banning Doctors.
The above is what I comented on the paper's web site.
I got your back Bro.
I've never seen it layed out that way. I agree.
If you all liked Zeke's and SSG's response; read Ted Nugent's.
I thank God we have people who can throw factual information into people 's face and make them look dumb because they operate with emotion and not logical sense.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/19/commentary.nugent/index.html
Well said, "Zeke" and D. I've always wondered why the Pioneer insists on printing those inflammatory mass-distribution letters from people with no connection to Bemidji. In the case of folks like John Hansel, it's just too bad you don't have to pass an IQ test before you're allowed to exercise your First Amendment right to free speech.
Personally, my "assault" rifles aren't for hunting deer, they're for hunting tyrants.
Chet, is this Chet C? If so, I thought you fell off the face of the earth! I see you found my site eh? I know we all agree, thanks for the comment.
To everyone else. I was going to continue to post everything from the pioneer debate/site, however there is just SO much material that I don't want to bother reposting here. If anyone happens upon this topic and would like to debate or chat about it further, I'm down with that. I'll be gone for about a week sometime soon, so any responses from me will have to wait...I'll be around for a little bit though.
If any are interested in following the pioneer debate...
http://www.bemidjipioneer.com/archive/index.cfm?keywords=gun+control&page=search
OR
http://www.bemidjipioneer.com/articles/index.cfm?id=8883&page=comments&forumcomm_check_return
Yep, it's me. I've been lurking for a while, but that idiot's letter got under my skin. You guys are risking your lives to defend our liberties and then this Hansel guy wants to throw them away. It disgusts me.
On a positive note, I'm glad you're hangin' in there and I look forward to seeing you back here soon.
Couldn't agree with you more! Taking away guns is like taking away our right to defend ourselves. It's dosen't matter what type of gun it is. If they can't get "assault weapons" they will just use a shot gun. Drugs are illegal and it didn't stop people from getting them and using them. If we make guns illegal it won't stop people from getting them and using them either. We need to look at the people as the cause for these terrible acts. I for one will own a gun for protection legal or not.
Chet, I'll try and find you when I get home, don't shoot.
Jennifer, absolutely. Fear the government that fears it's citizens. I shall also always own one, whether it's "legal" or not. You hit the nail on the head. There is proof all around that the "bad people" don't follow the rules, they will always have the upper hand when good people let bad things happen.
Well, I've beat this dog enough. Points have been well made and accepted. Thanks all. I'll have a new post up when something strikes me....
Indeed, freedoms aren't free, they come at a price. A price that was paid and continues to be paid. Why are we ready to so willingly throw that purchase away?
Common sense is one of the least used senses. Why is that?
Zeke, do you listen to Rush Limbaugh?
I swear there are a lot of similarities with your responses that are very in line with a lot of what he has to say on certain subjects :)
You got e-mail, Zeke? If so, shoot me one sometime. I've got a hotmail account that's just my first and last names separated by an underscore.
Hi Zeke,
You don't know me. But I am a friend of your father. I'm an agent with the same company in the small town of Ada.
I truly enjoyed your post. I could not agree more with it. After reading it, I thought you might appreciate a collection of sayings I've kept for years, all of which I found would be very appropriate to this subject. I wish I could remember where I got them all, in order to give credit where it is due. Nevertheless, I thought you might appreciate them as much as I have.
I want to thank you Zeke for all you do. I especially want to thank you for helping protect our country and my family. I wish there was a better way to thank a person that is willing to give up all of his tomorrows for our todays. Thank you Zeke. Thank you for every single day that you have devoted to our beloved country.
Here are the sayings I thought you might enjoy:
Thomas Jefferson said, "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
Samuael Adams said, "The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress…to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms."
James Madison, the Father of the Constitution, said, "the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation where the governments are afraid to trust the people."
Thomas Paine, the writer of Common Sense, the pamphlet that inspired the revolution, said, "Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world."
Patrick Henry, warned us to "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel."
"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future." Hitler said that in 1935.
ThomasJefferson: What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms.
George Washington: A free people ought to be armed.
Hubert H Humphrey: 1959: said "The right of citizens to bear arms is just one more guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible."
Lenin: One man with a gun can control 100 without one.
Mao Tse-tung: political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.
Stalin: We don't let them have ideas. Why would we let them have guns?
Hitler: "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their fall by doing so."
Anonymous-- once upon a time I listened to Rush once a week or so....but that had to be 4-5 years ago. Nothing recently. Once home I'll probably drop in on him from time to time, but no, I am not a recent reader or listener of Rush. My words and ideas are my own, though I can attribute them to my upbringing, my research in college, and my love of writing, reading and debate.
Rush and I might not always agree, but if some of my responses have similarities, I take it as a compliment.
Rich,
Thank you for your comments and especially for your collection of quotes. I do indeed enjoy them and am glad they are here now for all to see. I have come accross some of them before, but only recently started to catalog them myself. Your heartfelt thanks are much appreciated.
Joyful-lament, glad that you could see it all layed out. I am pleased that you agree.
Thank you for a wonderful post. I am not a wife, but a mother who is still subject to the military reintegration information that instills the worry that you all will come home as an “untouchable, unemotional, abusive drunk with PTSD.” My cognitive mind knows this isn’t true, but at at certain times some of it starts to creep in.
What you say in this post reinforces everything someone near and dear to me is saying. And it is so reassuring.
I love your strip of advice to wives that “arguments are NOT necessarily a bad thing. “ Hold on to that wives, parents and friends. It will be part of the coming together process.
Also you advice to the husbands “-you have experienced some things that no one will ever understand.” Just know that wives and loved ones have experienced things that might seem trivial to you, but NOT to them. It is a two way street. And we don’t ever HAVE to really understand the other, just respect that we both have had our crosses to bear, probably among the most significant that life will throw you.
I am 60 and remember when the medical community “protected” us from knowing the truth. I am not sure when it ended, but through my teens (the 60’s) they would never tell you that your loved one was going to die. There were clues however, like sending you home from the hospital when nothing seemed any better. My grandmother and an uncle where sent home just a few days before they died. The bad thing was that you worried needlessly in many cases.
Today it is the opposite, you say, “Doc give me the worst scenerio”, and they usually do. But it may be one in 98. And many worry over things that will never come to pass. Personally I like it better the second way. I like a happy outcome.
So, yes, the reintegration education program is causing us at home fears that, hopefully will never come to pass. But then then most of us will be prepared for those of you who have do bring home excess garbage. And be pleasantly surprised by those of you who settle in more easily. All in all I think is a good program.
I do think that you and others will suffer some post Iraq experiences, but that they will lessen quickly and that the good will out way the bad exceedingly. I expect that most of you will make super employees, super husbands, super dads, citizens, etc. for a variety of reasons….. dedication to duties, no petty complaining, calmness under stress, ( if you can handle other employees complaining about the air conditioning going out, or having to work overtime, or not getting enough sleep last night, or etc. etc. etc.) You have been through hardships that most of us can’t possibly understand.
You have put in a significant and costly time of your life, but it will make other things easier for you. And though I have never been a fan of this war, I have nothing but the greatest respect for you and all the other soldiers that came up and did their best when their country called them. Nothing is all bad or all good. Zeke, I think that you already have looked at the balance of this experience, and please continue to do so.
I get so proud of all of you that I get teary when anything patriot comes on the news, or even hearing the pledge of aliegence or other things I thought mundane before. I think all of you are amazing.
I know this is far too long, but I have one more thing I want to say. It is an apology (limited). A while back you had had a really bad day. This is an apology to the post I made following that.
A while back you had had a REALLY bad day. You had had food poisoning on the job and who knows what else….. long hours, paper work, certainly not much sympathy for what would have sent any one of us home from work and had other family members beckoning to our every request, and possibly worried calls from co-workers.) Your reward was probably people leaving you alone while you laid in the dirt by the side of the road while other people covered for you.
You had a pretty downer of a post in which I gave a “pull yourself up by the bootsraps and get focused and be there for you and your buddies” type pep talk. I would/will probably do the same again, but I want you to know that I really believe that you have occasionally used this site to just to blow off steam so that you can do just what I asked on your own.
You and the people you work with are amazing. I can’t wait to welcome you all back home.
I LOVED the information Panzerr gave us in a comment on this post. I think he is pretty amazing, too. This is another help to dispel irrational fears.
Maddogs mom,
who mostly thinks everything is going to turn out OK when you guys return, but still hopes none of you buys or drive motorcycles until next spring. (or at least a couple of months.)
and who is a retired teacher that happens to think that writing your feelings so far outreaches any needs for seeing spelling proficiency. Some of the greatest doctors, writers, lawyers, Presidents have been less than great spellers. They just hire people to proofread. Until you get a proof reader, you are Ok by me.
My love to all of you.
Maddog’s mom
.
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